Author Topic: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2  (Read 33190 times)

Offline Sanchopanza

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2007, 02:13:17 PM »
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How your ship dies, doesn't matter, it's dead, there's a destroyed trigger on the table, do it.

JT is an Objective that is always active outside the battle... If the battle ends, per a rolled 11 or 12, then the cards are discarded, both Luke and R2, as the battle had ended.

I still believe that if Luke didn't say "and this battle ends" then you could trigger R2, but because Luke destroys and ends the battle simultaneously R2 doesn't get the chance to trigger as its effects only last until the end of the battle.

Again I could be misinterpreting the rules.

Offline Sanchopanza

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2007, 02:15:04 PM »
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Events that happen after a ship explodes is after the battle stack ;)

Was that a simplification of what I had just said? If so, then curse you!

Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2007, 02:21:13 PM »
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How your ship dies, doesn't matter, it's dead, there's a destroyed trigger on the table, do it.

JT is an Objective that is always active outside the battle... If the battle ends, per a rolled 11 or 12, then the cards are discarded, both Luke and R2, as the battle had ended.

I still believe that if Luke didn't say "and this battle ends" then you could trigger R2, but because Luke destroys and ends the battle simultaneously R2 doesn't get the chance to trigger as its effects only last until the end of the battle.

Again I could be misinterpreting the rules.
It's not that it's saying end of battle or anything that's making a difference, R2-D2 doesn't work until the battle is over when your ship is destroyed.  However, (because I posted too quickly last time), I would agree that the ship using Luke would not take any damage, because by rolling an 11 or 12 damage resolution ends.  R2-D2 happens after that, basically the card doesn't do anything until you're ship goes boom, which is the last step of the battle.
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Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2007, 02:27:50 PM »
ReCap

2 ships attack each other
1 plays Luke, the other plays R2-D2 (order does not matter here)
Both players roll dice
Luke rolls an 11 or 12 instantly causing the other ship to explode in a fabulous fiery death
Luke ends the battle preventing him from taking any damage
R2-D2 whistles and beeps a lot (aka omg we're going to die)
R2-D2 player then rolls after his ship is destroyed to find out if he can cheat death.

The End!
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Offline Sanchopanza

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2007, 02:33:32 PM »
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basically the card doesn't do anything until you're ship goes boom

True. But Luke simultaneously makes the ship go boom and ends the battle outright. R2 can not trigger because the effects (it's "would", everything) end due Luke pop off his shot and says "i'm spent" all at the same time.

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Luke ends the battle preventing him from taking any damage

And ends all other actions like Leia's foil (to a lesser extent).

Offline gethralkin

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2007, 02:44:30 PM »
I see where you are going Geth, however, Luke ends the battle as soon as the die are rolled and the requirements are met (11 or 12), thus giving R2 no chance to trigger.

As J said earlier:
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We don't know what the "and this battle ends" really means in terms of game mechanics.

I'm willing to wager my imaginary millions that "and this battle ends" means "no other actions of any kind can occur within this battle's que/stack."

Okay, I see your point.  Luke doesn't cancel the card, but by dignity of calls, Luke's card would not be preempted by R2-D2.

"Effects from a combat card last only until the battle ends, unless specified otherwise by the card."

R2-D2 says, "would be destroyed," meaning that it's effect takes place within the confines of the battle.  If it said "if it is destroyed," then it would take place after a battle.

Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2007, 03:26:09 PM »

Okay, I see your point.  Luke doesn't cancel the card, but by dignity of calls, Luke's card would not be preempted by R2-D2.

"Effects from a combat card last only until the battle ends, unless specified otherwise by the card."

R2-D2 says, "would be destroyed," meaning that it's effect takes place within the confines of the battle.  If it said "if it is destroyed," then it would take place after a battle.
I'm not seeing how that makes a difference in how your ship is destroyed......
For us that write code, we know the IF THEN statement.
If this happens, then do this, but i never did enjoy C++ or Java (VB FTW!)

Logically speaking, when you ship is destroyed, that should be the end of the battle.
R2-D2 reads, If your unit would be destroyed (destroyed being a result of battle, aka battle is over), roll a die.....
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Offline Sanchopanza

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2007, 03:33:39 PM »
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R2-D2 says, "would be destroyed," meaning that it's effect takes place within the confines of the battle.  If it said "if it is destroyed," then it would take place after a battle.

I conceed that point. +force for using my own arguement against me and me being stupid enough to follow along with it.

However. I still say that the "would" is skipped over due to Luke's auto-destroy and "and this battle ends" happening at the same time.

Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2007, 03:48:56 PM »
I am so losing this battle, but I am hopeful that I can win the war!
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Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2007, 04:10:16 PM »
Ok, how about this from the rules booklet

7.  "When the number of damage counters on one of your units equals or exceeds it's shields value, it is destroyed and moved into your reserve zone"

8.  "If you played any combat cards in the battle, discard them and then draw cards......"

With that order of operations, the combat card is still in play after the ship has been destroyed (aka after battle), thus allowing R2-D2 to still work as that operation is outside of the battle.

Does the happy dance!
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Offline CaptAntilles

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2007, 04:33:51 PM »
Ok, how about this from the rules booklet

7.  "When the number of damage counters on one of your units equals or exceeds it's shields value, it is destroyed and moved into your reserve zone"

8.  "If you played any combat cards in the battle, discard them and then draw cards......"

With that order of operations, the combat card is still in play after the ship has been destroyed (aka after battle), thus allowing R2-D2 to still work as that operation is outside of the battle.

Does the happy dance!
You make a good point here.

Offline gethralkin

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2007, 04:35:00 PM »
"If you played any combat cards in the battle, discard them and then draw cards......"

The cards you played are spent at this point, and if the rules didn't say discard them and draw new cards then you would have the wash-rinse-repeat-turning-into-a-prune-'cause-they're-trapped-in-the-shower people all befuddled and bewildered.

I say the battle ends with a boom.  Most battles do.

Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2007, 04:45:49 PM »

I say the battle ends with a boom.  Most battles do.
That's what I've been saying from the start, R2-D2, works after the boom! (aka after the battle) 8)
Just because the battle is over, doesn't mean the card dissipates into fiery burst as well......That's what Assassin Droid is for :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 04:47:35 PM by donyoda »
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Offline _J_

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2007, 04:52:51 PM »
Ok, how about this from the rules booklet

7.  "When the number of damage counters on one of your units equals or exceeds it's shields value, it is destroyed and moved into your reserve zone"

8.  "If you played any combat cards in the battle, discard them and then draw cards......"

With that order of operations, the combat card is still in play after the ship has been destroyed (aka after battle), thus allowing R2-D2 to still work as that operation is outside of the battle.

Does the happy dance!

Unless Foil Luke links the destruction of the ship with the end of the battle, in which case Foil R2's effect is not longer around.


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Offline donyoda

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Re: foil Luke Skywalker vs foil R2-D2
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2007, 05:05:13 PM »
ugh, you guys are killing me, I feel like King Leonidas vs. a billion people.

how can i reword this.....ponders....ponders more.......ok

here's the way this is going to go down. R2-D2 works after the battle!  The destruction of the ship, regardless of how it happens is the end of battle, the combat cards are still in play!  The combat card (and according to the rules) is discarded after the battle, which means R2-D2 is still chilling to get his effect off.

THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!!!
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